Let’s Get Up To Business: Episode 6

Mark Miller’s Copyright Presentation

Interrupting our normal way of doing things, and because the editing process takes longer than you’d think, this week we’re changing up our normal interviews and handing you the talk our Marketing Director, Mark Miller, gave a couple of months back on Copyright to the Coffee and Content meetup sponsored by On Target in Orlando, FL.

Now you wouldn’t think that a Marketing Director would know a lot about copyright and trademark laws, and admittedly what Mark knows is just the tip of the iceberg compared to a good IP attorney, but he still knows quite a bit. When you’re creating content you have to know what you can and can’t use when you’re creating a new website.

So if you have a question about whether you can use that image or not, or if you just copied something from Wikipedia to use on your latest blog post, then pause for a moment and have a listen to what Mark has to say.

Of course, if you have actually received a Takedown Notice, Cease & Desist, or other legal notification about something you’re using to market your company, then contact us. Our attorneys can take a look at your issue and advise you on the best way to handle your issue.

Let's Get Up To Business Podcast

Episode 6: Mark Miller, Marketing Director; Copyright Presentation- Full Transcript

Jordan Law Marketing Director - Mark MillerHey everyone, this is producer Mark instead of the normal interview that you get in your feed. Today, we’re going to include a talk that I gave at on target media in April of 2019. There’s a group that meets there once a month called content and coffee. And they go over how to best use or reuse content that you’re creating for your website for SEO purposes for your blog, Instagram, whatever. In this talk, you’ll hear Tom Jelinek go over a couple stories your Hillier, everybody who was at the talk, introduce themselves. And then finally, get down to business. If you do have any questions about using copyright in any material you’re creating, you should contact an attorney, we are available at 407-906-5529. Or you can reach us on the web at jordanlawfl.com. And here is the talk, hope you enjoy. Thanks.

We use Eventbrite. So every time we get 50 tickets sold, I kind of roll the dice and 25 people show so it’s been varying, but I see some new faces, which is awesome. Who hasn’t? I didn’t hear your new you guys welcome back. Very well, I’m glad you’re here. And I hear the elevators, we might have a few more people come in. So I’m a little bit about this copying content. I’ve been in this business for she’s like 14 years now. And I on target creates content for all its clients on a regular basis. So maybe podcasting, maybe written content, graphics, etc. And, you know, over the years, I, I kept watching the, you know, five tips on how to do x and then, you know, you’ve read this content, right? Like, the stuff that makes you not you now, right. So over time, I just kept digging and dig digging deeper as an agency. And we’re like, we have to get this stuff more human. Right, we have to connect with people on an emotional level with all the content that we create. So I created this because I wanted people to come in and be able to contribute ideas and bounce stuff off of each other and really help us all to create better content. And no matter what industry, you’re in legal banking, exciting, how do we connect with human beings. And so this is why I created this. And I love the fact that you, Nikki came back to which we appreciate anyone to I know you didn’t. But Nikki is actually on target to his team members. So excited to have him. So one quick story. I have many stories, but let me share one. I was with a prospect. It was last Thursday, and we met at Starbucks. And he’s got this really cool product. And it’s a mobile tire changer, basically. Right? We’re sitting there talking, and we’re talking about his demographic. Now this guy’s got a background in engineering. He’s brilliant, really, really intelligent, didn’t take many marketing classes. And I’m not picking on him for that. But he’s kind of having some challenges with how do I market this? So I started talking to him like we’ve been doing, you know, how have you been marketing this product? And he says, Well, you know, everybody in Central Florida needs their tires changed. Okay, well, that’s not a false statement. So I start poking and poking out a little bit deeper, like, so tell me about everyone? Well, everyone has a car. Everyone has tires, everyone needs us change. And he’s like, I’ve been doing this for two years. And I’m just not getting any not getting any momentum. I said, Okay, well, here’s roll on, what about marketing? Everyone is not your customer. And when I said that to him instantly, like got deflated. I’m like, I don’t mean any disrespect by that. But I’m like, I understand that your product is amazing. I understand that everyone has a car, and everyone has tires. And so everyone is not your customer. What does that mean? That means we have to find the right perfect audience to craft the correct content for so in his case, you know, people that live in higher end neighborhoods that have maybe BMW or higher end vehicles would really benefit from his joining us, because the rest of us will go set the tire kingdom and wait for three hours. And break that crappy coffee. I always smells terrible coffee. And then the floors are always sticky. You sit on a couch, and you think there’s a science experiment happening there. But the point is, that I wanted to convey to you guys this morning is it when you sit down to create your content. You can’t write it for everybody. When you sit down to market your product, it cannot be for everyone that has to be you have to pick a niche, you have to fine tune that audience. And I know that may sound really Elementary. But it’s really amazing to me how many people just don’t grasp that, especially with the internet. I mean, we can sling articles all day long. Eric Decker can write a brilliant piece. But if it’s not guided towards a specific audience and a specific person, we’re not going to connect, you know, we’re going to just blend in on the internet. So anyway, that was one story, my second story. And then I’m going to have you all Introduce yourself. But this leads up to our presentation. And I was sharing this with Mark earlier. Two years ago, we have this air conditioning client. And we’re building a website forum and doing the marketing and creating content, etc. all this stuff we do. And they do duct cleaning, which is kind of for being honest, sometimes like smoking mirrors, and really not. industry is kind of seen in a crappy light. So we’re building the site, and he’s adamant put this one image on the website, and be I’ve done my first rodeo and like, Where did you get the image from? Is it you know, whenever you send over to me just know that the onus is on you, not me, because I get nervous every time a client slings a photo over to me. So Oh, no, yeah, we got it. We found it, whatever. So we acquired it. So we installed the image and it’s a petri dish with a little bit of mold in it. So he was trying to convey this is a living in your lungs. This is in your ductwork, blah, blah, blah. This image guys, no joke is probably like 72 pixels, like, like that tall. It looks like crap. I hate doing that. But they’re out of it. So we put it up. Two weeks goes by I checked the mail. And there’s a nice letter from Getty Images. That tells me that I need to take that image down immediately. Oh, and by the way, the fine for this particular image is $795 payable today, blah, blah, blah. So I was telling Mark I was like, well, we’ll just slide in there and take that image down. like it never happened. Right, and republish the website. So another week goes by and that wasn’t enough, they sent me the second letter, you will pay blah, blah, blah, and then the fines can keep climbing, whether you took it down or not. So the point is, we’re going to talk about that. We are going to talk about that this morning. So really how to protect ourselves how to keep any content we create. You know,

legit, right, right. Yeah. So I also want to call out the jellybeans which provided by advanced system solutions, sponsoring this one of the finest computer networking and developing distributor jellybeans. Tom Kitt, how would I do a podcast every Friday called the T squared Tech Talk podcast so make sure you subscribe. It’s it’s a lot of fun. We take tech talk from appear and kind of just bring it down to a human level and have a blast doing it. But Tom knows I have two lovely daughters. Hey, welcome Horace ago.

He brings in and I’m not exaggerating, I think 30 pounds of frickin jelly beans.

But they’re delicious. And they smell amazing. So thank you very much Tom and event system solutions. So why don’t we get started introduce yourself and then we’ll go around the room and we’ll get to the meat and potatoes. You saying I’m not the meat and potatoes.

You’re a portion of leading up to I’m the appetizer. I am interview I do a radio show under the PR k which I turned into a podcast. I also write for a couple magazines here in town and do a lot of other things. Basically anything that people need right now.

Hi, everyone. I’m Daniel Davis. I’m a writer and performer and I produce and host this show Orlando story club. So if any of you are storytellers, please come talk to me at some point. Love to get you on the stage. Welcome.

I’m Nikki I’m the Marketing Director for coffee’s credit union.

And I’m also an Instagram influencer with Orlando Vegas, the go to guy for being the main ecommerce manager at Goodwill Industries in Central Florida. And a lot of you will know we sell stuff online, so I want to shop it well.com slash window and then we just opened up our new website, which is good friends. Calm so check it out. Yeah. Hi, I’m April Cox. And I tell them Rocky’s retreat. We are a dump boarding and daycare business in Orlando. We also have the only indoor heated pool for dogs in Florida. So we did therapy work with dogs that have arthritis and dysplasia, things like that. So because I’m the owner, I’m the everything. So I do all our blog content and working really hard and growing our social because identifying your customers crazy doctrines really love to see your thoughts on social. So that’s been a great way for me to connect with my customers because not all dog not everybody who loves dogs are like that level.

So it’s worked for it’s been an

interesting journey connecting with that level. Welcome. I’m glad you came back to Eric Eric Decker’s pro blog service I content marketing, crappy writing agency also published a book.

This was November last year, new level drops again this month. be available on Amazon for

excellent welcome.

Greg advanced

technology company tries to help companies with wherever their pain points are.

I also run the Orlando power lunch, which is a networking group on the first Thursday of every month. So if you have any interest in expanding your network of people here in the Atlanta area.

Thanks for those of you.

And thank you for the diabetes.

Thank you. So

I’m crispy. So I am a first year law student at Florida a&m in downtown Orlando coming to the end of my first year. And I have a YouTube channel where I’m documenting involving my law school experience but really interested in getting into this world of social media and the law. And how the two we’re coming together. So yeah, that’s very excited to be here. And I’m sure Mark can attest very important.

here and the high end Jean Marie Anderson, I’m a broadcast and digital video content producer, done quite a bit of work at the Golf Channel. And as a producer, and I am currently helping small businesses personal brands, but their video production needs for websites and social media.

Welcome back. Here at Channel on each angle, any content solutions. I’m a writer, editor, proofreader been doing it for a long time long enough that I started on a typewriter.

Close about here. My name is Mason. I’m an audio content producer at on target. I actually ended the T squared podcaster Tom, Craig and Tom here. So that’s his favorite show of all the ones that he edits. Good job. Yes. So that’s what I do here and came to us from full sail. So

thank you. How about here? My name is Mitch Buchanan and I a direct marketing and business development for two small startups out of UCF and Orlando. The stove is the main one that I work for currently. And we are as we’re a platform for event organizers to make additional revenue off of their in person events via live streaming and offering and paywall creator control pricing and closed environment. Those types of things are cool, welcome. Thank you. And I actually just heard about this at like, 815 this morning,

being a couple minutes late to the roster here.

How about here?

My name is Dixon. I’m from Canada, and I’m an independent artist. I recently started a YouTube channel documenting independent artists journey with their own money, their own knowledge of technology. And I just want to see how I can just expand what I’m doing. So welcome.

Canada, it’s

always the worst part. And now the meat and potatoes. Yeah, so Mark Miller has been coming to copy and content, I will say, Well, yeah, the last three or four months or four months, marketing director, marketing director at Jordan large lump thing. So, you know, we have been, I’ve been talking a lot about how to really keep yourself protected and legally. And I know he’s got an amazing presentation to kind of walk us through some of the pitfalls, etc. So Mark, I’m really glad you’re here and very grateful for your time. And you brought the whole bunch of, yeah, there’s some classes out there. If anybody wants to steal a couple, please do. So first things first, Tom was mentioning how he got a takedown notice from Getty Images. If any of you ever get one of those, call me. And we’ll talk because we can usually negotiate those fees down. They’re, they’re happy to take whatever money they can for the takedown. So, you know, we didn’t have to pay 800 bucks, he couldn’t pay less. But that’s two years ago stuff, we can’t help that funny story, my law firm actually one of our former attorneys did something very similar. In putting up an image that belongs to somebody else, I don’t remember who it was, but essentially for what she what we ended up paying for even after negotiation, they could have flown to Paris, take the picture of the Eiffel Tower themselves. So do be careful about using other people’s work. But we’ll get onto that. So a little bit about myself, St. Louis native with their toes 25 we to Phoenix for a decade. And then my wife, girlfriend at the time, decided to come out here to very law school, we did the long distance thing for a little bit. Then I ended up here, married a lawyer and do legal marketing things. Started in internet it back in, you know, when I was like 1819 year old buddy, we’re building computers in our basement. Then when I went to Phoenix, I worked for the second largest hosting company in the world. It’s not the GoDaddy, it’s the other one that has all the different names. Then I started digital marketing with them for a while. And then for the last five, six years, I’ve worked specifically with attorneys. Now, some caveats. I am not a lawyer, I work for lawyers. My talk is informational. And it’s about best practices. It is not legal advice from a lawyer because I am not a lawyer. Being here does not establish a client trading privilege, because we have to pay for that kind of privilege. All legal situations are different. So if you have a specific situation, I can give you advice, I can talk to you about it, but you do need to talk to a lawyer about it. And of course, if you need a lawyer asked me. Yes. Did they make you say oh, no, they did not make me say a word of that. I came up with that all on my own because I want to see why.

comes from years and years ago, it

does come from using

First things first, what is copyrighted. Very simply said, copyright is the ability to copy distribute or alter work that somebody has made. So photos, music, written words, etc. Yeah, just just any artistic endeavor, your ability to change or copy it, that’s what copyright allows you to do. So what we’ll cover today, and we’re going to go over what’s yours, what’s not yours, what’s kinda, and then the unknown and all the other stuff that’s going on right now.

So your content, what is yours?

basics copyright starts the creation. So as soon as you put the rest of the time, take a picture and start typing, you own that copy that copyright is yours, it is yours to district, as you mentioned is yours to copy as one is here to alter in the future. But you should still register your work you can do so a copyright deck up. I don’t remember the exact fee. I think it’s $45 per work, but they do bulk work. If you need help doing that lawyers can help you with registering your work gives you additional rights, and it protects you so that when you know somebody else uses your image, you can send them a takedown notice and charge them $800 for using your picture.

Market. Yes, copyright. So if you have a blog, and you’re creating multiple pieces of content on that blog post, you have to register each individual country because essentially, that’s

essentially that is what they want you to do. Okay?

That’s said, you do because it’s published because there’s a publication date on you’re blogging because archive.org collects that data over time, you have some broad protection through that. But if you want to be able to solidify your right to copy your copyright rights, you do need to register each article, each piece of content. Now do newspapers register every article that they’ve ever written? No, that’s way too expensive to every blogger, you know, every post on Facebook that they make, do they register that know, every art, every photographic Getty Images, however, they registered that. So you gotta be careful. Images are really the most stolen thing out there. Because you know, you can just go to images that google.com and boom, look at all these pictures that I can use on my site. No, don’t do that. So copyright, like I said, that establishes other rights, reproducing, adapting, changing, selling, sharing, giving others people access to use your copyright on for their stuff that are issuing takedown. Protection last a long time, we can think this whole guy protection right now last for 70 years and after the artists death. So, for example, Mickey Mouse won’t come into the public domain until 2024. Because, you know, seven years after all this is done. And sunny here is the reason for that the CTA, right, right after he passed away was passed pretty much because he died. If he hadn’t, copyright would probably be a different Eric, different thing right now, don’t think keep extending that to that’s what the CTA was, it was an extended most recent extension back in 1990, 789, that pushed it it was I think it was like 25 years ago, it was 50 years before, and they pushed it to 17 years after the artist death. And it also changed like it you do something for company or government. Their copyright is I think, 120 years from the time that it was created. So that’s the difference between being an individual artist and being a company is if you’re doing it for a company, its creation date, if you’re an artist is artists. So you don’t have to publish to have copyright, you can write it on your computer and never distributed. But if you have a confirmation of what date that was created, you can still you know, claim copyright Now, that said, if I take a picture and leave it on my, you know, camera, put it on my shelf and never bring it out and somebody happens to take the exact same picture. Do I have copyright over their picture? No, they they took a picture to it just happened to be from the same angle for the same thing. So don’t go after people that don’t deserve it. infringement infringement King happened in the medieval times it’s adding a little lace to a garment and infringement by altering somebody else’s work does not necessarily give you copyright to it. Shepard Fairey gotten big trouble with this whole poster back in

2008.

Because he took this image from the AP, and just basically painted over it. That’s an infringement. That’s not really a alteration to the word. There was a big legal argument about it. It never actually finished the trial because they settled out of court and decided to share the the images. Neither the AP nor fairy one to finish that off. But basically he said, Yes, I use your image. And they said, Yes, we deserve my for that. So nice to people over his design. Somebody Shepherd fairies, interesting character. As with everything is an exception, so do be careful. You know, the life is all about exceptions. So whatever you think you’re doing, if you think it might be questionable, ask an attorney, they’ll give you advice on whether or not it is legal or not, they’ll charge you for that advice. But if it saves you $800 and $50 for the attorneys time is probably worth it. Yes, ma’am.

Go and pay to get the images, right if you’re

paying for it, because you’re paying for their copyright license or licensing that work. So if you go to I stock photo, or any of those places, and you pay for that you are, they’re extending their copyright license to you, for the use that is allowed in that license, you

need to like, keep, like I have a membership to a site that auto renews every month and I get 25 images, like travel

ball that proceeds

just of my membership of your membership?

Do they not send you an email every time you download? I mean, so do some don’t. So I don’t think a lot of that will also show a history. A lot of them also sort of the history, like if you go to your account into your account, to see your download history and what images that you’ve been given the right to, if you ever cancel with them go and get that first. So that you can say yes, I had access to this image at the time, I put it on my site, you know, just because I can’t do that I still bought the license it. Also read the license agreement, because some of them will be for the time of your client, the licenses extended some will be you know, permanent license, etc.

Okay, other people’s content, do not use what isn’t yours.

If you made it, if you bought it,

if it was given to you and you have proof, you have that receipt you have you know, like your aunt saying yes, you can use this image on just a notepad with her signature, if it’s in the public domain, or if it falls under creative commons license. And we’ll talk about that in a minute. Those you can use anything else, if you didn’t pay for it, don’t use it, don’t go to images, don’t go to google images and just use the first images that you like, don’t do that you don’t know about that. You don’t know who made that. If you bought it with a theme for your WordPress site, they have a license that image to distribute. So you’re good there. But just Just be careful, there are plenty of places that will allow you to get images. So if none of these apply in between stuff, Creative Commons, does anybody know what Creative Commons is? Okay, can you what is great. So basically, whenever someone puts their work under Creative Commons, it enables them to enables anyone else to use that work for anything they want to but then in doing so they have to make it so that their work is able to be used by anybody else. Sorry. So the great Commons, it says different licensing types, attribution, all Creative Commons licenses require you to attribute the original, creative. So if you go to flicker and take somebody’s image under creative commons license, and you have to check, if it’s under creative commons license, then you have to attribute it to that person, you can link to their Flickr account, if they have a personal blog, you can link to that. It’s but you do have to attribute to the original artist. Share like is what he was talking about some licensing allows you to do what’s called share alike that means whatever you use their license, their image, their music, their whatever for, you can add a share like license. And like if it requires a share like license. That means whatever you create with their stuff also has to be a Creative Commons licensing with another Share Alike license. So if I sing, which nobody wants me to do, and put that on Soundcloud under creative commons license, share alike, somebody wants to use that in a commercial. They can’t because that unless they say everybody in the world can use this Geico commercial with Mark voice on it. So guy goes back to do that. But you know, if any of you guys have podcasts and want to hear my horrible singing on it, as long as your creative covenant, as long as your guys podcast that I’m ruining, also is a share alike license. So anybody can edit your, your podcast in any way that they like. As long as there’s attribution to you and to me, then we’re good. non commercial, some of the licenses required to be non commercial. So that means if you’re making money off your blog, and you probably can’t use that image, you probably can’t use that song, you probably can’t use that video. If you’re doing it for an AR another artistic work, if you’ve got, if you’re going to Maker Faire and you’re putting on a show, then you can use it. Because you’re not making any money off of that. I use it today. And since I’m not making any money off of it, I could probably use that image. No derivatives, that means you can use my image, you use my sound, you cannot cut it up, you cannot edit it, you cannot change the angle of which that’s the image you can use. That’s it. But you still have to attribute me.

So places to find license material with Creative Commons flicker flicker is my favorite. because it lets you when you go to the search bar at the top. As soon as you search something, there’s a drop down list and says licensing and you can print, pick whichever Creative Commons license you want. Remember, you have to attribute to the actual artist. So on whatever blog post you’re posting, or you know, some places have a About Us page or another page, whether it’s attribution page, with with all the links. I do it in the blog post at the bottom. Photo credit by you know, showing some See,

bacon, music,

Vimeo, if you need video,

Wikimedia, if you need pretty much anything. Wikipedia is Creative Commons, and skilled Commons. It’s open licensing for training programs. So if you have you need to learn how to do something. School Commons allows you to learn for free, doesn’t have everything on there, of course, but there’s lots of good stuff on that. Public domain, public domain is available for any way you want to use in any way they want. No matter what. Because the artist died over seven years ago, because there was a copyright dispute and it never got resolved. And so the copyright licensing fell through. You know, the company disappeared. There was many and I worked for a marketing agency for a little over a year. And one day, my Slack channel was turned off, my company phone was turned off. my credit card didn’t work anymore, and the office is real hot. Everything we created is now in the public domain because they went bankrupt. expires and whatever it is, obviously, this is gonna be interested in can they reapply? How does that work? Like how So no, they can’t reapply. Mickey Mouse will technically fall into the public domain on January 1 2024. However, Mickey Mouse is now a Trademark, Trademark does not die.

So Mickey Mouse, Goofy, Donald, etc.

The lawyers will have a fun time with that in a couple of years. Because, you know, trademarks different than copyright, it’s though there’s some specificity around trademark the copyright doesn’t really have. So you’ll be be able to do stuff with Mickey Mouse that you can’t do that. Basically, you know, the guy who wrote created the Creative Commons can’t remember his name, but he wrote a book. And he predicted I think, was that Disney will lobby Congress to extend that 30 years to 90 years. That’s what CTA was Disney working with Sonny Bono. Yeah, because he was also an artist and also had a very, you know, personal stake in copyright extension. Because some of his stuff, you know, would, he didn’t think his grandkids were going to benefit basically. So someone’s in the public domain. Obviously, all the writings of Shakespeare has been done a long time was divided Frank bottles been gone for a while. The Devil’s a film Debbie does Dallas is in the public domain. Copyright dispute over the use of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders trademark in that made copyright go away on them. But if you want to distribute it, you have to get permission from the Dallas Cowboys. Big it uses their trademark look. That is living dead, you would not have the zombie movies and zombie films that we have in metal Living Dead had involved in the public domain, because that type of zombie technically could be copyright. So because of a I don’t remember exactly the details around why that falls into the public domain. But the Walking Dead probably wouldn’t be a thing if it weren’t for the living dead volume. So Getty Images, we mentioned them earlier, they do have an area for education. It’s pictures of all the artwork and again, a museum that do fall into the public domain. Before you use it, make sure it’s on that list. Go to their website, check it read through what they’re you know, because some of them are some of Mark they’re very good about being helpful about it, though, I will tell you that. So if you want to take a picture of, you know, the Venus and put it on your site, and it’s one of their images, they’ll work with you make sure that you get the right one, because some of them are some of them are to the library Library of Congress archive images, they actually have a really good Flickr account, if anybody’s interested with pictures from the Civil War. art from all ages of the American history, it is amazing stuff. Your questions are too much. Yes. First, anything government takes is public domain, like NASA images or the military. For the most part. Yes, there are some perks around it with like different logos and stuff like you can’t use the NASA meatball without their sign. So I like that picture Mars a picture of Mars. Yes. If NASA took it now this SpaceX taking over and with, you know, blue origins, and all those guys going up there now. Some of the images, you find a line may not be NASA make sure you check. The other question was if I take a picture of a piece of artwork, Amanda? Yeah. The I can take the picture music, because that’s, that’s public domain. But what if you took a picture of it?

Is it my fiction? I assume. So. I took the picture of the

picture, correct? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’ll let you use my picture. all my stuff is great. But

if you look on Wikipedia, media counter defines own artwork. Somebody took a picture, somebody took the picture, and somebody gave it to Wikimedia to us. Okay, so that’s fallen in the public domain. They gave it to the public domain is not public domain, because of the art. Right? Right. Yes.

Yeah, basically, the answer is if I, if it’s my picture, you can’t use it unless I say so. If you took the picture, obviously, you can use it. And Wikimedia the pictures on there are verified public domain pictures. The unknown the other stuff, orphan works. Does anybody have any idea what an orphan work is?

No, no,

exactly. We don’t know who created or we know exactly who created we can’t find the guy, or the company like the marketing firm that I work for, they went belly up. We’re not sure if there’s a licensing agreement with somebody else. We think they took that picture of what coke can but

can we use it?

Sure, go ahead. But if somebody comes around and says, hey, that’s my picture. And they have proof. expect them expected. Right? And

so just there’s a lot of orphan literature out there, especially a lot of sci fi from the 50s. And the, you know, the 40s, and the 50s. That falls into this. And, you know, because those magazines went away, and because they companies got bought up by other companies, and we’re not sure where belongs. Can you use those stories? Go ahead. Somebody might come along and ask you to write them a check. Nobody might. We don’t know. We’ve mentioned CTA a few times. This is the Sonny Bono the Act, the Mickey Mouse Protection Act. In other words, then extending copyright to 70 years after the artists death. Put the date when it was Oh, yeah, it was Mickey Mouse balls in the public domain on January 1 2024. You can expect Disney and other groups universal to extend that. I don’t remember what Superman falls in the public domain, because I don’t remember when those guys died. But it’s not far off, either. So do you think universal wants to give up Superman? DC wants to give up Batman. All of those things were created by people. You know, every Spider Man by 70 years from this from last year. Spider Man and everything will fall into the public domain. Is Disney going to give that up if they can? I mean, they’ve got seven decades to make use of it. Yes.

But if you look at Mickey Mouse from all that time ago, it’s he looks completely different than the Mickey Mouse

now, but Walt Disney what created him?

Right, but every time they get to the

17 year olds are because it’s the character creation. So if they started calling him something different or creative

before, but it’s still 70 years after his death.

There’s still some because the creator died some years ago. Yeah, no. like Sherlock Holmes, right. The mentally Andrew part of it entered the public domain. And so there are certain things because the Sherlock Holmes Hey, come on to the copyright for property.

Finally lost copyright battle.

For that spring again, elementary and Sherlock Holmes, the TV show and

then pay licensing fees for a little bit.

was putting together an apology. And you stayed one day licensing fee from He said, No.

They brought it home to state to state. So it’s like the last five years are still copyrighted. The first whatever or not. And so you can’t mention that. JOHN Watson played rugby, published a later story. Even if you were writing about young walk without paying a licensing fee, you could say he played sports, because it was generic enough. And so I smiling the whole Sherlock Holmes copyright.

Yeah, and this year is the first year in 15 years that things are falling into the public domain for the first time. So you know, and personally, I think that’s great, because as with, you know, the walking dead and the other zombies, just think of all the artistic works that have been spurred by the ideas that were created by somebody else that they couldn’t do anything with, because it was copyrighted. So all the stuff that doesn’t exist, Disney owns as it falls into the public domain over time, you know, I’ll be able to write totally different stories than somebody before me was people will be able to do amazing things with Mickey Mouse that they’re not able to do right now. You know, there are ideas out there that people want to do these things, but they can’t because they’re afraid of getting in legal trouble and never being able to go to Disney World again. But I can appreciate. That sounds like all the time. So. Um, but yeah. So back to the CTA is the one that extended it, DMCA, the Liberty Digital Millennium Copyright Act. This is possibly the worst written act in all of history. It gives the ability to copyright access to things by basically, john deere copyrights, their tractors, right? Of course they do. To fix a tractor, you have to go to a john deere shop, because to take it apart, you’re breaking copyright, because your asset you’re accessing a copyrighted work. I guess it still works for you. So now there are right to repair laws that are going through and john deere actually stopped fighting that battle A while ago. Oh, I know why this is because the copyright on the computer software that, you know, gives you the ability to manipulate information on on the tractor like, and if you access that in a certain ways, and john deere doesn’t allow you’re breaking their copyright by accessing it. There’s a company I think it’s I don’t remember if it’s bad product, or one of the other ones, they created an insulin pump, the guys who created insulin, they put that copyright right in the public domain. They said this is a life saving thing. Everybody should have access to it, who has diabetes, world take it, please have it. Medtronic, so whatever their name is create an insulin pump that you cannot refill the cartridges. Because the way that they have the cartridges said, once it’s empty, it knows it’s empty. The pump knows it’s empty. So you cannot refill that and put that back in because it’s this is an empty cartridge. I can’t I can’t use it. So you have to buy new purchases from them. It’s like printer ink. Finally, somebody has a little while ago that allows you to refill your pantry. There’s if you listen to marketplace on NPR a year or two ago, they went through the whole printer a debacle. You know most of us still buy a printer from BestBuy or wherever. But you don’t have to you can’t get refilled. Now, they finally broke that saying that was right that you get out. But yeah, you can’t copy the DVD catfishing john deere tractor, can refill your insulin pump without breaking the DMCA, because it’s just such a weird for the article 14, who knows what our 13 is, it’s been in the news lately, if you know which. So this is going to break the internet period. This is the EU rule that says that you cannot use anybody else’s stuff ever, without buying a copyright to it. So any mean, you know, which is conversion, creative work can be used. And it puts the onus on not on the person who made the mean, it puts the onus on YouTube, on Facebook, on flicker to have a database of all copyrighted works. And compare your image or your story or your article against that database and say you can’t use that you can’t use that you can use. Now if anybody’s ever put a video on YouTube and have a takedown notice, you know how weird it is like

if does anybody listen to this week in tech? So

this week in tech is a big show. And I mean, you know Leo Laporte is out. California, it’s one of the biggest tech podcasts out there, they have put all their stuff up on YouTube, they’ve gotten takedown notices from YouTube, because YouTube runs it against their database of copyrighted works. And they’ll You know, sometimes they’ll show a video of you know, something on see that or this or that or the other, CBS, NBC anything. And because that video is playing in the background, while they’re having a new story talking about this video, they get to take you down, they actually lost her YouTube access for several weeks, maybe a couple months, a little while ago, because of one of these takedown notices. They’re a news program, they’re allowed to talk about stuff. But they got takedown notices, because these databases suck. And the algorithms that run them suck. And the AI is that they’re trying to build them. They’re nowhere near where they need to be. Now putting the onus on Facebook to you know, take down every meme that uses sponge, Bob, every image in the world is going to be taken up Facebook, and all these Google YouTube everybody, they’re going to have to go for the most hardcore laws that are passed. Now each individual country within the EU has the ability to pass an individual law around article 13, France is going to get there as fast, it’s going to be the worst, and everybody’s going to have to adhere to it. So basically, unless you take a picture of European that you took, and it doesn’t look like anybody else’s picture ever. You can’t post on YouTube, or you can’t post on Facebook anymore. They’re gonna find it there, it’ll go through the courts, It’ll take a while to actually be enacted. And it’ll probably be broken articles, or it will probably be broken by then. But it’s, it’s something to be aware of. It’s something to understand, if you want more information on this. Cory Doctorow is a science fiction writer, he was helped found the E FF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation. He’s a very interesting guy, if you go to crap homes, com, that’s his website, his podcast every whenever he remembers to do it. whenever he’s interviewed, he gets share like rights to put it on his own podcast stream. He’s talked about it the last several episodes about some of the questionable decision making, that the German champ the German member of the EU parliament went through to get article 13 past and what he’s going to do. So

if they’re interested in for that to

come to the world, the thing is, it’s not that that’s going to come to the US, but it’s going to affect us, because Facebook and YouTube and all these US companies are going to have to adhere to the rules of the European Union. And when when the EU passes something, it’s a big enough marketplace, that you know, the tail wagging the dog, we’re just going to go ahead and everybody’s got to follow this rule, because it’s easier for us to make one system for everybody than to try and make the system for France, a system for Germany and a system for the US and a system for Canada. You know, so and IP access is, you know, I can use a VPN and make it look like I’m in England or in Germany or Russia or you know, I’m sitting here in Orlando, there’s a reason. So it’s just why don’t we make the same rule for everybody? It’s like, what’s the GDPR? Anybody remember that? So GDPR applies to all European Union citizens. So if somebody here at one of you know, the law firms that I’ve worked with, or talked to, or were referral partners, somebody here gets hurt, who’s from England, or from France, let’s say that company has to follow GDPR. They pick up that case, they take a personal injury case, because they have a European citizen, and it follows the citizenship, not the location. So us the article 13 is basically the same thing says it follows European citizenship, and not, you know, French person has to follow friends lot. So why don’t we just make it whatever law France passes, that’s what we’re going to, we’re going to add here to that system. Like I said, it’ll be fun on the courts, it’ll take years, decades for it to be decided on, it’ll probably get stripped down between our them because a lot of the people in the parliament didn’t understand what they were voting for or voting against. They thought this side would wait till everybody said I should vote for this side, because that’s the one that gets rid of it awake know that somebody? Makes it apply? I don’t know. Yeah, politics are fun.

Okay, so any other questions?

So we’re talking about pretty amazing, our blogs, or websites? How about social media, Facebook, LinkedIn, you know, our images, they’re a little bit more free to be posted? Because it’s not directly linked to our website. But it’s linked to your name. So yes, and no, Facebook will always put the onus back on you. So if you’re running an ad on Facebook, and it uses something from Getty Images that you didn’t buy from that you got from Google Images, Facebook’s gonna say, oh, that ad belongs to Tom. Go after him. And add in that system, it’s it’s a post are getting gonna care. Like that can vary so fast? Yeah. That, you know, like, will they ever even notice? Probably not? Should you do it? Probably not. Another one is, um, so I’ve been blogging for three years now. I’ve gotten images from different places different, we all have things that you need the time by figure there, right? Where is there a way to check? I know that Google has images thing to check and see where there’s other images are used on the internet? Yeah, is there something that you recommend we go back and maybe checksum images that we don’t see easiest way is to do right click, copy link for your image, and then post that in a Google image search, and it’ll show all the places where that image is used? Okay. So that’s what Getty basically does, is they have a, they have a program that runs that, you know, and sees where it pops up that, did we get paid by this website or not? So that’s all programmatic on there. And if you’ve been blogging for a long time, you can do it yourself, it will probably take a while or and can you hire some kid for for full sail on an internship and make that a job?

So what about places that because they say they’re free stock, images, pixels?

Okay, so one of those places where you go in, it’s like, I’m downloading this icon of a fake, like,

actual picture of, you know, like, a woman out in the beach, or, you know, like music for our one of our websites, because it says free stock. mean, I’ve read everything. Sure. terrified.

So I

just kind of you ever write to me, because you work for a very big group? Yeah, um, keep your records where you got it. Yes. Easiest way, if it says free stock images and their sites that you like, and they have it on their site, and you downloaded it from their site, and there’s probably a marker on the image on the exit data that shows that where it came from, by keep your records where you downloaded stuff from, just to make sure I’m sure all those places to make you sign up and give them your email address to get those if no, while they’re missing out on the trick there. You know,

if you want more stock images that you know, a bigger variety of pictures, then you do pay for those images on there, and things like that. Yeah.

And those, those, those ones are probably like, they probably got them from Wikimedia or someplace else themselves. So I wouldn’t worry too much about it. That said, as long as you keep your records and where you got stuff, you know, that’s why I put Image credit where on any blog posts that I use somebody from flicker, you know, Image credit from you. Mario, the plumber, you know, link back to his text is a flicker account, just so I remember, I don’t have to keep it, you know, but yeah, that’s an easy way to do it. If you don’t want to do that, you know, you can write yourself an email with the image in it, just send it to yourself archive immediately. So you can go back into your email look.

Images, so obviously, you know,

we just recently got into Burberry first that is authentic and real, right. And when my listener says, Hey, I have this exact same purse on a model somewhere.

Box, put the, put it in there. Make it look real fancy.

All the other? Yeah.

We always like to get a model in there. And so I said use one of the other. Yeah.

Shoulder go stand in front of like, Well, yeah, don’t don’t don’t. Yeah.

You have a question? Yeah. So

it’s like a couple of questions. And

it’s all real. Go for it. So I ran actually a photographer that works for me.

So he goes just right. Yeah, I paid him and so we use a lot of our I use some software. I can’t just get like, Dougherty’s. Hello. So I just need some starting to survive. I used to have my own images. But I don’t just post an image sometimes I’ll have like, it’s heartburn Awareness Month. You know, Pepsi Cola

is canvas.

And I and I put my logos on them. But I’m not registering those like,

like that says, shares, I don’t care.

If you don’t care. You don’t. Why bother? Okay, especially if you’ve got your logo on it. You know, I want that share the the QR code on here, put that on your phone and links to my personal profile it links to my site on our webpage it links to my twitter or Twitter, Instagram, everything, like it links to a file download of this. Yeah. I can’t remember the name of the program that I got it from but yeah, like, Please take this is got our logo right there, share it everywhere.

Using the one of the images that I bought, or that I get from my those

free sites that right, yeah. It’s okay for me to

alter it, right? Because I have the

right if you read the licensing agreement, some of them will say you can alter this in any way you want,

right? And

put text on and like, right,

but in some of them will say No, you can’t. So just read the end of the licenses. Usually the ones that were like I stock photo and big stock and all those guys, yeah, you can do whatever you want. That’s why you’re paying them every month so that you can use those images in what in your social media. And then

my last part of that question is I actually took my business over from previous owners of businesses been around since 2011, I have been on a really interesting journey to find all this old stuff buried in the left.

And so like, they have been blogging for all the years, you know, 2011, and there’s a lot of old content images, and, you know, I’m unsure their origin. And now that they’re completely retired, and they’re interested in answering my questions as well. So, you know, you can actually, like, take some time, or maybe get an intern to like, kind of scrub that.

It’s also, you want to do that, for your own peace of mind. As far as the images or the text and everything are concerned, it’s also not a bad idea to refresh that old copy. To update it for today, just from marketing aspect, that’s probably a good idea to you know, bring that back into the loop. And you know, oh, that’s a great idea. We should talk about how 10 years later world has changed about that particular thing. I know, it’s, you know, there’s probably not a whole lot that’s changed in the dog care market. But what do I know, I’m not the expert on that you are. So most importantly,

getting images

like this, that’s probably your most important thing. Like I said, images are probably the most stolen thing online. By, it’s still not a bad idea to go in there and refresh it in other ways just to get Google to say, hey, Cal updated, maybe there’s something important. If you could put like an update new information with a link to someplace else on your website? It’s probably not a bad plan, either. Yeah. Yeah.

Question to sort of clarity. So as a photographer, if I’m photographing events, they don’t have the right to modify those, but I don’t copyright them. So how does that?

Did you pay to get into the event? And what were the rules around you’re paying to get into the event

is that like wedding photography, for instance, like I always say, please credit back to us. And that, but the client always assumes that the products are there

are the photos there, whether your licensing agreements, say when you sell the photo. So it shows that it’s up to you.

Okay, so then an Instagram or people do take my photos and share them, they don’t get it back. But those aren’t copyrighted either. So

why are they so like they’re sharing? Like, they’re doing that share thing on their

order, they just like screenshot and taken they just don’t credit back.

That’s just the

good luck going after them on Instagram. You can is it worth your time? Yeah. I know,

for taking your logo and putting it on there, but that you’re not involved with? Was it a positive event? Or was it a Nazi rally? Like, if it’s another influencer event, and they’re saying, hey, look, she’s involved, that increases your that’s that’s a, you know, that’s a good thing. Which one? Is it? You know, does it increase your your market share? And I wouldn’t go after them? Does it put a negative spin on who you are? Or does it like not represent you in a bad way? That maybe you want to tell them don’t do that.

But the only way to do like a takedown notice or whatever, if the title for copyrighted basically,

no, big like I said, copyright begins. So if those are yours, and you use like, for your logo, specifically, especially if you use that across all of your media, like it’s always on your pictures, it’s always on your branding, it’s always on your website, I would go after them if you don’t want them to use it. You know, you want somebody to read take down, give you James’s number right now.

choose your battles.

Yeah, definitely. As with anything, pick and choose your battles, like, as attorneys, we don’t take on every client, because maybe it’ll cost us more to sue this company than it would then we potentially get back? Yeah. Like you don’t take give somebody walks in our door with 17 D wise, you know, and they have, you know, hundred dollars in the bank, are we gonna take over this client? Probably not, unless there’s a really, really good reason, compelling reason, compelling reason.

Now, if they have $100,000, in fact,

I like this person sharing my post ended incredibly, or whatever. I mean, obviously, the nine

is, what’s your time worth? Or what’s your energy worth? And you know, yeah, like, you know, what’s the the senator who had, you know, so and so’s cow? He went out for a couple Twitter accounts, because they were making fun of him. And now those Twitter accounts have more followers than he does. So yeah, yeah. So yeah. What’s your target? He thought it was worth going after these guys. Were making fun of him. If he had ignored them, they would be nothing. Because he paid attention to them. They have 150,000 followers. He has 43. So what’s your time?

Sir? So going back to the Creative Commons things?

Some familiar with that process. I mean, done it before. And as I recall, to spend a couple of years, you actually can filter that to Creative Commons? commercial use out loud, I believe. But it’s been a couple years. But the question really is, if somebody puts an image into Creative Commons, and you use it, can they two years later take it out of Creative Commons? Or is that a permanent designation? They can, but they’re foolish to do so. Because I mean, I’ve actually had this happen. When I worked at the hosting company, we had a client who, you know, found an image on flicker or wherever, and they use another website, and they credited the artist. And the artist decided to go back and flicker and change all their pictures to you know, regular licensing. And then they tried to go after this guy. And he’s like, wait, I got this. You know what, when I built my site, three years ago, this was a Creative Commons license, I entered I, you know, put the attribution, I put the CC logo, I put all that stuff on there. Like, why are you coming after me? Well, it’s not under creative commons license anymore. So it’s at the time of the original use, like there’s a legal argument to be made, of course, you know, like, like his lawyers and say something different than our lawyers and say, but at the time that he put it on the site, it was Creative Commons, he had every right to use it. is a law firm going to defend him for $100, you know, fee or probably $150 fee, they’ll write a takedown. But, you know, unless he pays more than that, it’s not going to do much else. So yes, they can? Should they not my opinion.

They’re walking into a

minefield to do so. Right?

Let me just show you. What do we want to do the

there’s some great.

So right here.

Any license?

So all Creative Commons, commercial use allowed allowed commercial and mods, no, no copyrights a script that that means is probably in the public domain. And then US government works so

easy.

If there’s not a picture of it, use a different search term.

I have a question about resale apps. And similar with the question about the model, all of them are using branded model. So

so

so if you get picked up from like, Nordstrom, they probably got that picture from Burberry. Yeah, so like, if anybody selling a Burberry purse, they probably got those images from Burberry. So it’s always the same models with the same person the same pose, because it’s the same pictures, because they got it from the source. So but because they’re selling it, you know, from their official sales, company, brand, whatever, for Burberry, they got, they were a lot.

But my question is more like, because hundreds of thousands of users are posting copyrighted material, is the organization like posh mark for example, is an app. Yeah.

Is there any liability for them, if a company they

pass the liability on to you to sell, and they will say that in their end user license agreements and their you know, all the contracts that you agree to when you’re you don’t have seven years to actually read through? They like Facebook, everything you post, if there’s a problem with it, it’s on YouTube, if you post everything, you know, we’re going to take it down if it’s copyrighted work, so we catch it. If we don’t, somebody comes after you. It’s on you.

So I’m assuming the issue is just that it’s not worth their time to go after individual people, then?

Well, sometimes it’s not by sometimes it’s, it’s again, they pick their battles, just like you should. But just like she should. Yeah. Is it worth your time, your energy to go after? Like, you know, they came after Tom, because he owns a media company. You know, he probably could afford 800 bucks? Probably not. It’s probably cheaper for Tom, to pay that $800 than it is to freak out about

it. A lot of times, it’s just ignorant people just don’t are just right up. I mean, you just don’t know they can’t share this without you. Yeah,

for sure.

Most people get in trouble, because they didn’t know they shouldn’t.

Like we got like the attorney who posted a copyrighted image on our site. You know, they came up for us because we’re a law firm. You know, what, if it had been on my personal blog? Would they have come up to me? Probably not. But there’s a law firm, they said they’ve probably got a, you know, bank account. Defense, and anger is not a defense at all, just because you don’t know the law doesn’t mean you didn’t break it. And you will be held accountable for breaking the law and all this stuff you share or acquire and sharing your Facebook

that Tom Craig posted on my blog?

Where did you get that from? think twice about that. On the internet, it’s got to be

all of those gifts like it when you do you know, replying. GIFs? Are those copyrighted?

Most of mine are like from the office or the right.

Yeah, I don’t know how many times I’ve shared that, you know, looking. Yeah. But yeah, I don’t like but Facebook’s providing that image to me. So I assume they did do their due diligence, right? with that. And also. So there’s also a timeline for some things like certain works, if you use less than three seconds, or less than 30 seconds, you don’t have to reference the artist. I always say reference the artist, I always say, you know, if you think you have to pay for it, pay for it or buy it legitimately. But I don’t know the exact number of seconds, but certain like some music, you can play a snippet of it as like your intro or outdoor music without referencing so much. Don’t just don’t just buy it. Yeah. Or go to what was the go to band camp. Somebody’s got, you know, into an opera music that you can use for free as long as you tell them where you got it.

Other questions? Know

that I have another question about music. Yeah. So with copyright, if you’re copying someone song, let’s say for an audition,

that that’s allowed, because it’s a live performance.

I mean, it’s performing in front of the people. you’re auditioning for performing that people are paying for.

Yeah, but it’s a live performance.

The band The

Barenaked Ladies, they, when they go to go to any Barenaked Ladies com concert, and they will cover 17 songs in three minutes during one of their, you know, during, because it’s a performance because there, it’s a performative work, they are making their own thing. It’s transformative work. So it isn’t copyrightable. Now, if they record that and try to sell it, The Beatles are coming after. So. So yeah, live performance, you’re fine. Trying to make money on that. But you know, only by pointing this out, because I just think it’s interesting. I have a friend of mine who owns a restaurant, and he was telling me that they can’t just play music in the restaurant, you know? Yeah. And there are people go to restaurants and listen and then check to make sure that you’re paying for all of that right. And he said that even applies to if you have a guy sitting on a stool with a guitar, performing it live. You have to pay a service you have to you know, I was just floored by everything you told me about this.

instructors here when they play music for your classes. You may

go to a yoga studio that like all of a sudden

somebody came in five bucks for a session and then decide to Super 45 you can sing happy birthday. Yeah, that’s that’s fun. They let go of that. But up until two three years ago yeah, that was true. Happy birthday was a copyrighted work and the ladies who wrote it were alive recently enough that it was still under copyright by them and it is it ASCAP and BMI right so if you do own a restaurant you’re supposed to be paying those guys and it goes away like there are companies that specifically like he said they will sell to I was a waiter in a bartender for years so like we had this whole big system in the back for you know we can choose what channel so we can choose what kind of music we paid for but they were paying you know a couple thousand dollars a month for system because it was guarantee you it was restaurant music So yeah, I thought the Happy Birthday song they found the song actually existed. Like I said, they finally gave it up because somebody I think you’re right version of the song and found that they should never have had I don’t know the specifics. I think you’re right that there was some confusion on who the actual writer was. Was it this other person? Or was it them? Or you know, with the sisters or? But yeah, like I said a few years ago they gave up the fight, you know, I’m saying and they never actually went after anybody. I don’t think the the estate of you know the the sisters who allegedly wrote it or didn’t write it or didn’t I don’t remember. Like, I don’t think there’s ever been an actual lawsuit from their estate over the thinking of that song in or, you know, public place or anything, but it was just one of those. Oh, isn’t this funny stories more than anything else? terrified now. Thanks.

You’ve been listening to let’s get up to business from Jordan. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and would consider sharing the show. We would also love an honest five-star review through iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, or whatever podcatcher you use. If you are interested in being a guest on the podcast, please contact producer Mark through email at mark at Jordan law fl.com. Use this subject line podcast guests in your email. Thank you. We look forward to speaking to you again soon.

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Let's Get Up To Business Episode 6 - Mark Miller Talks About Copyright
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Let's Get Up To Business Episode 6 - Mark Miller Talks About Copyright
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The Marketing Director for Jordan Law discusses using copyrighted material on your website, blog, video, or any other content you're creating. He discusses your rights, when you can use copyrighted material, when you can't, and some history of copyright law in the U.S.
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Jordan Law
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